Boycott businesses that support predatory towing
I frequently visit the Olive Way Starbucks, right across the street from not one but two of the apartment buildings I lived in during my misspent youth (back then, the Starbucks building contained a Red Robin). When I am at Starbucks, usually studying, I’m always there until closing time—but I usually manage to get out the door right before midnight, because I hate to keep the employees there late. Apparently this tendency has saved me from the predatory practices of TBT Towing, who service the Starbucks parking lot.
Apparently, TBT line up tow trucks there right before closing. At midnight, since the store is no longer open, no one is technically a “customer” any longer, and so TBT starts towing. To the tune of $280 for each car. Of course, Starbucks in general are pretty slack about kicking people out right at closing time (in my experience, anyway), so people have come out of the store a few minutes after 12 to find their cars missing, and TBT laughing all the way to the bank.
Starbucks claims they don’t approve, and I tend to believe them, because there is no way that authorizing this is in their interest. Bad PR for sure, and after closing, there is no need to rush to clear that parking lot. (The real problem there is that during the hours the store is open, the lot is often full, and on-street parking in that neighborhood is a rara avis indeed.)
The real infuriating thing about this article, though, is the “nyah nyah nyah” attitude of the towing representatives quoted, from TBT and from West Coast Towing. Predatory “patrol towing” is against Washington state law, but the companies claim that they can do it anyway and they are going to keep doing it.
From now on I am going to look at the signs in parking lots to see which tow companies the lots’ owners have contracted with. If I see TBT or West Coast, I will avoid giving the merchants my business, and I will tell them why. I hope you will do the same.
(I had this article saved all day yesterday to blog about and never got around to it. Better late than never, I say.)
February 20th, 2004 at 12:29 pm
Predatory Towing
February 28th, 2004 at 2:48 am
Before accusing a company of “Predatory Towing” as was done in a recently published article, the writer should be sure he/she knows the facts. The recent article in the Seattle PI was incredibly full of distortions and even lies. The author is right that “patrol towing” is against the law and TBT Towing DOES NOT engage in that practice. The PI “reporter” never bothered to visit TBT and examine the file of the tow in question despite our invitation to her to do so. Nor did the author of the article in your publication contact our office to discuss his/her concerns versus the facts involved. Owners of properties in Seattle pay HUGE amounts in taxes and other costs for their rights to these properties. They have the right not to have to clean up beer bottles, needles and garbage left behind by those parking on their property without permission. MANY business owners have banned after hours parking in their lots because of the actions of a minority of jerks who have no respect for other’s property and left behind a trail of garbage. Two quick points here…First of all, anyone who takes what is printed in the PI as gospel needs to get a clue. Unlike publications such as Slumberland which seeks to give an equal voice to all, the PI edits and decides what we will receive as “news” and what slant will be placed on it. Second, instead of pointing the fingers at a towing company simply doing what they are contracted to do, let’s point some fingers at the small handful of jerks whose past behavior brought business owners to the point of feeling the need to no longer permit parking after their businesses close. I am glad you printed the article by “itinemo” because when there is open dialogue we all win…but as General Manager of TBT Towing I just wish that our office had been contacted and the article published was factual and not based solely on an outrageously fictional article in the PI.
February 28th, 2004 at 4:37 am
Rick, thank you for writing — however, Slumberland is not a news publication, but a personal opinion weblog in which I post links to interesting things and discuss them a bit. As such I don’t research what I post here in the same way a news organization would. I was posting a reaction to the P-I article, not an independent investigation. (I also sent this reaction to the P-I as a letter to the editor, but they did not publish it.)
Now, regarding the article: it is in no way appropriate to tow customers’ cars within, say, 15 minutes of closing. (Seems reasonable to allow people some grace time to come out of the business, wrap up their conversations and leave, etc — unless the business has made a point of asking them to move their cars immediately, which that Starbucks does not do, in my experience.)
Starbucks denies authorizing the towing in this circumstance, but witnesses claim that there were several TBT trucks lined up waiting for the stroke of midnight to tow. Do you deny this? Of course, it’s in Starbucks’ interest to deny authorizing the tow, since it’s such bad PR for them. Are you saying they are lying? I would love to know.
February 28th, 2004 at 2:40 pm
litlnemo;
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify the towing situation at Starbucks. You raised a good point that needs to be answered. No cars are towed from Starbucks or any other of our customer’s lots without their authorization. In the case of Starbucks, during business hours the staff does indeed check with customers in the store before requesting a car be towed. Once the store is closed, the doors are locked and there are no customers in the store, they put out what cars in their lot do not belong to staff members and authorize their removal. Our trucks then begin clearing the lot. As mentioned in my initial article to you, this policy did not develop because Starbucks wanted to be hard nosed or mean-spirited. It developed because of people parking in their lot, going to bars and parties in the area and then leaving a trail of trash, including used drug needles, etc, behind. Obviously in people are outside finishing conversations they would see the tow trucks arriving and move their cars. The reality is that 99% of the time when cars are still in the lot the owners have moved on to a bar or some other location. In Seattle there is a court called “Impound Court” held once a month. Any individual who believes that their vehicle was unfairly impounded has the opportunity to go before the judge and explain why the impound was wrong. The towing company and the business ordering the impound also explain their side…then the judge makes a decision. In the past twelve months TBT has been to impound court regarding approximately 95 impounds. In only 6 cases were the impounds ruled to be improper. In those cases the customer gets his money back. But our track record in court speaks for itself as far as how we do business and the fact that we operate within the law. Yes, there have been times when someone may have seen some of our trucks nearby prior to midnight. If we have been advised that there are far more cars in the lot than people in the store and it is almost closing time, it makes sense to have our trucks nearby. Please remember that the manager on duty can not leave after his/her shift until after our trucks arrive because every impound must be authorized and signed for. You asked me if Starbucks is lying. No, but they were grossly misquoted in the PI article as was our supervisor. The week the article was published I happened to be in the hospital yet spent over one hour on the phone with the PI reporter prior to publication of the article and yet every word spoken to her was ignored. What is even more interesting is the fact that long before the PI article appeared we, along with Starbucks adjusted our procedures to not tow until after 12:20am to give that grace period for a customer who may have just run over to an ATM or some other short errand. The PI reporter was advised of this but said absolutely nothing about it in her article.
I hope this answers the questions and concerns you raised. By the way, on the rare occasion a customer’s car is towed by mistake, whether it be our mistake or Starbucks, that car has always been returned free of charge.
Your website provides an important service for the Seattle community. As demonstrated by the fact that the PI failed to print your letter, the print media in this city care little if at all of providing a voice for the people. Keep up the good work.
February 28th, 2004 at 4:43 pm
Thank you for providing your perspective.
There’s a clear financial incentive for TBT (or other towing companies) to be aggressive in their towing. Which, perhaps, leads to this:
The implication here is that TBT trucks are (or were) showing up to be ready in case they are needed, not waiting to be called. So then the employees were signing the authorization — but my reading of this is that these were cases in which they may or may not have bothered to have the cars towed if the trucks weren’t there.
I don’t deny that the site owners have technically given the right to do this; however, it’s pretty clearly a customer-unfriendly policy and one that does not make me look kindly on businesses that support it.
Incidentally, the “trail of trash” in that lot is frequently left by people who didn’t even leave their cars unattended there. There is a bus stop right there, and tons of pedestrians cross through that lot constantly. If keeping the lot secure is so important to the owners (does Starbucks currently own the site, or just lease?) a gated lot would seem to be ideal. It’s not a huge lot, so it wouldn’t be terribly expensive. That they haven’t yet done that makes me think that lot security isn’t a big motivation for them. (I also imagine they hire custodial workers to clean the lot of any “trail of trash.” Towing is not the only way to keep that lot clean.)
February 28th, 2004 at 7:56 pm
Thanks for hosting this exchange, and pinging it to Seablogs! It’s always nice to be able to get additional information and perspectives on local news and issues beyond what’s printed in the newspaper.
March 1st, 2004 at 10:25 pm
Thank you!
Here’s something else I stumbled on regarding this story. If this blog post is true, then some tow companies do tow without authorization for each tow from the lot owners. They don’t say which company is doing this, however.
May 5th, 2004 at 7:29 am
Well I am going to try and get an impound hearing set today!
I was parked at the parking lot adjacent to Washington Mutual on 45th. My friend and I were in the pub across the street for less than .40 minutes when we came out and found my car on a toe truck and several other cars in the lot were being towed. I was charged $240 on the spot to get my car off of the tow truck. I debated with the tow truck driver that the signs were not clear. And although he agreed and he agreed that it was a rip off, he stated that he had his job to do and his commission of $55 to make. He said he wasn’t happy about it either because he was at home fixing dinner when the “parking-lot attendant” called him to inform him of allegedly illegally parked cars.
I was also given a parking ticket of $25 (which in all fairness) if I was parking and simply not paying would be acceptable. However to be given a ticket and then within two minutes my car to be towed is totally unacceptable. Just because something falls in that gray area of legal and illegal does not make it right. Diamond Parking have removed the parking ticket given to me that night but are not going to budge on the towing charge and my car never left the lot, I can’t imagine what the charge is when folks cars are actually impounded.
Personally I am going to fight this. At least for no other reason that I got the impression it was a big scam. TBT offered me no towing or impound notice nor was there a centrally located price schedule or was one offered. The only person on the lot was “parking attendant” who seemed to be friends with the tow truck driver so my assumption is that this guy monitors the lot, gives tickets and immediately calls the tow truck operator. (I wonder what his “commission” is)There was literally .10 minutes from the time the ticket was printed to the time my car was hoisted up and we came out to witness a driver about to take off with my vehicle.
This type of money making scheme will discourage me from every parking and paying anywhere – I’d rather park at a meter and take my chances or walk 10 blocks so as not to ever fun any Diamond Parking facility or tow truck business.
May 5th, 2004 at 7:33 am
One other note! WHO is the “authorized” person from Starbucks or any other business that makes the decision and signs an agreement saying the vehicles can be towed? I’d like to see a paper trail and find out how someone is authorized by a company to make such a decision!!!
May 5th, 2004 at 4:34 pm
It was TBT towing in a Diamond lot? Hmm, that lot used to (quite a few years back!) allow free parking in the evenings for people going to local businesses. I guess that has changed. Was this at night or during the day?
May 9th, 2004 at 1:37 pm
Last weekend, I parked at Goldy’s on 45th. I paid my 3 bucks. At 2:12am, I go outside, my car is gone. I call the towing place, they say that Diamond authorized the tow. I said, “Can I have their phone number?” The person from the tow company said, “Good luck getting someone on the line.”
I walked home with my lady friend, who then drove me to–guess where?–TBT Towing. Towing charge–$220, After Hours Release–$55, Storage–$23. Now, how a facility can have “after hours” if they’re open 24 hours is beyond me. On my car, I find a ticket from Diamond–$25.00 for failure to pay.
So, if I leave this alone, I paid $3.00 so Diamond can charge me an additional $25-$50, and so TBT can make (including sales taxes) $324.22. I don’t even like Goldies!
So, Goldies, sorry, I won’t be going to your bar anymore. And Diamond, I’m going to do my best to fight the ticket–because seriously, if the $3.00 wasn’t enough to collect from me, you should just raise your rates instead of slapping $25.00 on top of everything. And TBT, man, sheesh. You had my car for fifteen minutes.
Good luck to anyone who has had this happen to you in Seattle. And y’know, that idea, to never again park in a Diamond lot, that sounds like a good idea to me. We should try to expand the knowledge base on this. Let people know that the owners of Diamond certainly aren’t the salt of the Earth.
GRR!
May 9th, 2004 at 3:46 pm
So you paid the $3 parking fee and they towed you anyway? A bit quick on the trigger, aren’t they?
I used to park in a Diamond lot several days a week, and at least once a month I would come out and find an envelope on my dash asking me to submit payment because I hadn’t paid, and saying I owed $25 for non-payment. In each case I *had* paid, and with a check at that, so I knew (eventually) that they had my money. So I would just call Diamond and bitch them out every time, and they would say “OK, you paid, don’t worry about the $25.”
But they never ever bothered to tow from that lot. My God, it would have been ugly if they had, considering how often they screwed up the payments.
May 10th, 2004 at 7:24 pm
Mr. Woodrow (TBT GM) has stuck his BIG FOOT in his MOUTH!
Department of Licensing has found TBT GUILTY of violating RCW(Revised Code of Washington) RCW 46.55.080 (1),(2) and (3) and RCW 46.55.150.
In summary TBT towing is in violation of:
1) falsifying and claiming Starbucks authorized the tow(TBT LIED>>>>>>)
2) TBT failed to keep proper records as cars were towed claiming one license plate number in TBT records and another on a “fake form” showing a different license plate which TBT falsely claimed Starbucks signed.
I guess Mr. Woodrow is associated with a company which became GREEDY and dishonest by stealing people’s cars then claiming Starbucks said it was ok. Mr. Woodrow runs a bad business and BBB (Better Business Bureau) would remove his company if he had the professionalism to ever apply at BBB.
May 15th, 2004 at 5:02 pm
I was a little concerned about the above comment since I couldn’t find a source confirming it right away. But today’s Seattle Times confirms that TBT did indeed tow based on forged authorizations. See this follow-up post.
May 16th, 2004 at 10:10 am
(post edited by original poster)
State Patrol is now performing a CRIMINAL investigation into TBT and all its employees(ie Mr. Woodrow). State Patrol is reviewing a possible CONSPIRACY of TBT management and employees in FALSIFYING authorization forms then illegally(STEALING) towing vehicles.
Starbucks has CANCELED TBT’s towing contract due to unethical conduct of towing unauthorized vehicles. Mr. Woodrow FALSELY deflects this as saving face BUT refuses to accept the FACT that Starbucks DID NOT authorize tows after Oct 2003.
Mr. Woodrow is clueless how a form at his company has a signature of a Starbucks employee(claiming authorized tow) but the employee was NOT working at time of tow. Funny story for Mr. Woodrow the spin doctor!
Mr. Woodrow(TBT GM) is merely a “spin doctor” misleading the public, State patrol, and DOL about the improper and illegal action of TBT employees(which Woodrow claims to manage…GM).
TBT employees may soooooooooon face criminal penalties and Mr. Woodrow will attempt to deflect the actions of few saying he lacked knowledge of what his employees were doing. If Mr. Woodrow lacked knowledge of the actions of his employees then he lacks common business sense or worse maybe he was involved?
TBT ILLEGALLY towed almost 1000 vehicles from Starbucks after October 2003. Starbucks has stated NO vehicles were authorized after October 2003 but Mr. Woodrow seems clueless about forged paperwork for approximately 1000 illegally towed vehicles could exist at his company when Starbucks is DENYING no paperwork was signed. TBT is FACING a COMPLETE review of its records keeping system.
TBT will face “letter of reprimand” immediately and be forced to improve its record keeping process. Costs, costs. costs….
BAD TBT business practices now will “cost” TBT and Mr. Woodrow(TBT GM) profits. Maybe Mr. Woodrow should have focused on the ethics of his employees to hold down costs now being absorbed by lawyer fees and employee time involved in DOL and State patrol investigations.
(Hmmmmmm is Mr. Woodrow clueless about his team?…….lol). Maybe Mr. Woodrow is just a poorly trained employee(GM) lacking knowledge of his employee actions or maybe he is hiding the truth with his misleading rebuttals which DOL and State Patrol find inaccurate.
Maybe this group could check Mr. Woodrow’s comments with the DOL, State Patrol before posting as his comments are inaccurate
May 16th, 2004 at 4:08 pm
“Maybe this group could check Mr. Woodrow’s comments with the DOL, State Patrol before posting as his comments are inaccurate”
Mr. Woodrow posted his own comments. They are not pre-approved by anyone here at Slumberland.
June 17th, 2004 at 12:45 am
Yes, I paid the $3.00 fee. I don’t know if TBT falsified documents or not. Diamond never showed up for the impound hearing, although TBT did. The judge declared an improper impound and ordered DPS to pay court costs plus the impound fee. Also, strangely, in my initial correspondence to DPS, I requested validation of the debt–specifically, the records that showed I had failed to pay the $3.00. They didn’t provide that, and instead sent a letter that my, “appeal was denied.” This is a violation of Federal Law per THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTIONS PRACTICES ACT; if you request proof, they must provide it within thirty days. I can’t believe Diamond is trying to collect on this.
Before the judge made his decision, I asked him a question about the validity of some of the fees. He wondered why–I had already won–but I’m no fan of TBT towing. The question was, “How can you charge $55.00 for afterhours towing when your business is open?” The TBT rep said that it was legal–after ten minutes, I finally got an answer. A towing business posts hours on its building, say, 8:00am-5:00pm. Now, anything AFTER those hours–at least according to TBT–qualifies as an after hours tow–hence, the fee applies. According to the judge, this is per state statuate.
Needless to say, I’m writing my congressperson after the payments are resolved–that’s ridiculous. What’s to prevent a business from, say, posting a sign that says they’re open from 12:00pm-1:00pm, then charging an after hours fee for all tows that occur “after regular business hours”? GRR! No more parking in Diamond, and TBT will never get any of my business–and if they ever tow my car again, I’ll see them in court!!!!
A lackluster Seattle economy is no excuse for PREDATORY TOWING PRACTICES!!!!
June 17th, 2004 at 1:20 am
Wow. Thanks for the follow-up post — this is interesting.
To play devil’s advocate here, I imagine that they may have to pay higher wages to night workers as many businesses do, so they charge higher fees on that basis. Still, it seems like they are just doing it because they can.
June 17th, 2004 at 2:37 pm
Sure, but that’s not my problem. If they have to charge more, then fold that cost into the fee for the towing. It’s a simple question–how can you have after hours fees if you’re open? Is it any coincidence that the After Hours towing fee is the same amount ($55.00) that is paid to “certain drivers” in commission for tows? I don’t have a problem with the people doing the job–sometimes you need tow trucks and such. I have a problem with companies defrauding consumers for profit. I see what you’re saying, and I’d agree IF I thought the law wasn’t being abused. At least to me, it seems clear that TBT is abusing the law.
June 17th, 2004 at 5:09 pm
I suppose they could just call it the Because We Can fee instead of the After Hours fee…
It is interesting that it is the same as the commission fee.
Please do write your congressperson. I agree that an “after hours” fee seems silly in this context.
June 18th, 2004 at 6:13 am
This is all VERY interesting, and encouraging/discouraging at the same time. I live in the panhandle of Florida and recently had my Blazer towed from a parking lot. My son had parked it there to go into one of the businesses where he works to speak to the manager about an injury he had received. This was after his shift at another restraunt where he also works and was about midnight. He was in the restraunt less than 30 minutes, came out, and the Blazer was gone.
The encouraging thing from this site is that people are aware of this predatory towing, but the discouraging thing is that the more I look, the less I can see that Florida has any sort of appeal process in place. Or, I should say, Okaloosa County (where I live and was towed) has no process in place that anyone seems to know about. Even the Clerk of Courts and the police and the Sheriff have just shrugged their shoulders in ignorance.
My only recouse seems to be small claims court, which I am doing. Seems to be more than I should HAVE to do, and yes, they charge exhorbitant fees in a simple extortion fashion.
Sharkeyrides@yahoo.com
June 18th, 2004 at 3:57 pm
Wow, that is discouraging that there is no appeal process. We do have one up here in Seattle, at least.
Was the lot owned by the restaurant or a third party?
June 25th, 2004 at 10:05 am
Just a quick update–Diamond has dropped their collection of the ticket I paid and has promised to send the reimbursement check. If this ever happens to you, fight fight FIGHT IT! I’ll be sending correspondence to the legislature next week–and also to some local news sources in Seattle. Take it easy!
June 26th, 2004 at 5:37 am
Congratulations! If any news sources pick up the story, please let me know. Thanks!
July 20th, 2004 at 8:23 am
The lot was/is owned by a third party. There is a large and famous charterboat marina there. I am making progress on filing the suit. You have to have ALL paperwork filed at the time you file the suit. Nothing can be added later. Real pain in the A$$.
July 20th, 2004 at 12:17 pm
Ah. If the lot is owned by a third party, I’m afraid it’s going to be more difficult for you, as they will probably say he wasn’t authorized to park there to go in to the restaurant, and I imagine a judge might go along with that. So good luck with the suit. :/
August 9th, 2004 at 10:34 am
I realize most of the discussion here centers around Seatle, WA towing and TBT, but for anyone interested, KY has similar laws as WA. Towing from a private lot is allowed, but only when authorized by the owner of the lot or the attendant. The towing service cannot remove a vehicle at its discretion nor can the owner or attendant delegate their authority to authorize towing to a 3rd party. As I read the statutes, I think the tow company could recieve authorization from a parking attendant or from the owner. I’d argue that a regular employees (and perhaps even a non-owning managers) lack the authority to authorize towing, because that would be a third party delegation. I’m not sure what the wording is on the WA law, but anyone looking into this in their own state will want to read that statutes that cover this issue and also look to see if there are any State Attorney General Opinions on the topic. If you don’t have access to legal research materials, most State Ag’s Offices are very friendly and helpful. They’ll usually answer phone calls and/or e-mails. I’m glad I stumbled across this forum today, very informative. Good luck to everyone fighting against these bastards!
August 9th, 2004 at 12:49 pm
Thank you for the information! I am kind of amused that people keep stumbling over this old blog post. I guess it’s an issue that a lot of people are angry about.
October 22nd, 2004 at 5:01 pm
its seems that good old tbt towing is up to its usual tricks i was extorted for money for the tow driver to go away when i told him i was going to call the police he threatened me with a phony assault charge he yanked my car in drive with the engine going witch other towing companys say probably smoked mt tranny when iwent to check on my car i found my belongings that had been in my trunk on top of other cars in the lot i took pictures of course i am taking them to small claims court if any one has any sugestions i am all ears i have been going around to area businesses that have tbt tbt towing signs explain whats going on and then ask them to take down the sign and go with a more reputable tow company you know your garbage when other tow companys say bad things about you and are willing to put it in writing
October 25th, 2004 at 10:44 pm
I couldn’t believe when I came across this post. I wish it were just 5 months earlier. I, too have become a victim in this TBT scandal. I just wonder if the investigation is still in effect about the fraudulent authorization from Starbucks, or what’s the word. I had to pay the drop fee of $240.00, when they didn’t even move my car. Why am I paying 240.00? I called a couple of other tow companies and the most that I came across charged 160. and half the price for the drop fee. The police were also called and they told me that it is a huge scam. I believe that they are still not authorized to tow, because the informer in my situation was from Highland Parking SVCS, who I checked out through the Dept. of Licensing and they are not licensed and unlisted in the phone book. The woman attendant admitted that she recieved $5-10 per towed vechile. Her name is Ruth but she wouldn’t give me her last name or didn’t even have a business card. I also called the restaurant that I was towed from and they do not know of a Highland Parking SVCS? I am currently contesting my ticket, but I would love to know some of the outcomes of previous experiences or advise if any? My friend and I were also physically assaulted by the receptionist HELLY from TBT towing when we went in to get her car out of impound. They were so unbelievably rude and uncooperative. A witness called the police to report the assault when Helly pushed us out, slammed the door in our face and locked it. Mr. B (the alleged supervisor) would also not complie with giving us contesting forms to fight this incident, the officer had to get them for us. Rick Woodrow, the general manager, was also present but would not talk to us regarding the contesting forms or releasing my friend’s car. He just sat there and watched the whole thing go down. Is that the use of a general manager? I don’t understand how or why these people are still in business!!! This is absolutely ridiculous! I hope people come across this before it is too late.
October 25th, 2004 at 11:33 pm
Thanks for the posts! I strongly recommend that you write to the local newspapers (try the P-I writer who wrote the original TBT story that I linked above) as well as City Council members, etc.
Unfortunately I think most people who find this weblog post are people who have already had towing problems, which is why they do the Google search that (I assume) is what leads them here. So to get the word out, you should try publicizing your message as many ways as you can, so people hear it before their cars get towed.
Good luck, everyone!
November 27th, 2004 at 4:02 am
My wife and I were called at just after midnight by my stepdaughter, Leanne. She, too, along with about 25 others had been victimized by TBT towing, to the tune of over 300.00 per car! Additionally, in order to access their cars for warm clothes, cellphone, etc., they were being assessed an additional 55.00! According to Leanne, the sign in the parking lot where she’d been indicated free parking, meaning the TBT legally didn’t have a leg to stand on. At any rate, I will be visiting the parking lot in question and taking pictures, adding them to my file which will be presented when the time comes to make my case. Unbelievable!
December 8th, 2004 at 10:34 am
WoW! I am sure glad I found this website! I, too, have been a victim of TBT’s towing scam! I have impound towing court against TBT on Friday, and can’t wait to address some issues with the judge. Th parking lot I was parked in did not have clear signage, it gives the impression of a empty lot, while TBT had taken advantage of this and made thousands of dollars off innocent people like myself. Indeed, now I always keep my eye out for TBT towing and will not park in any lot with their name on it.
January 1st, 2005 at 4:18 am
For those who didn’t see the latest — TBT might lose their towing license. See here.
January 14th, 2005 at 1:01 pm
I totally agree about boycotting places the have predatory towing or in the case of where i live booting. I’ve tried to get people to join the boycott i’m trying to start where I live, which is Poughkeepsie NY.
January 15th, 2005 at 6:41 pm
Good luck!
January 29th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Amazing, thanks for the informative thread. I was just towed from Donnas Diner on 1st south by TnT. I was donating my time to do sound for a Tsunami benefit show at Premier. Parking ticket - $65, tow $315. Mr. Woodrow actually thinks his business is legitimate? A $315 dollar impound makes as much sense as a washing machine charging you $30 per load. Unabashed extortion - period. The charge to get my car out after being impounded for 2 hours amounts to 2/3 my monthly rent! I paid with my credit card and definitely will be contesting that charge with Visa. Does anyone have any suggestions on which way I should go with my arguement in court? It was dark, and I surely didn’t see the sign, but is that the best route?
January 29th, 2005 at 12:14 pm
Oh, and interesting how silent Mr. Woodrow has been here since the criminal allegations…
January 29th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
I’m sorry you got towed. Good luck in court! I’m afraid I don’t have any great suggestions for you as I haven’t had to deal with this in court myself, but maybe someone else will post something. I know where that Donna’s Diner is, and I will definitely boycott them if they are using TBT.
By the way, the other towing company I wrote about in the original post of this thread, West Coast Towing, was just shut down by the state! At least one victory for the little guys!
January 31st, 2005 at 6:00 pm
If the person in comment number 37 happens to sign back on “carma” please email me at lmeoli@entrix.com . I also attended the Tsunami benefit and came out to find I had been towed. Same price tag on both Parking Control and tow. Would like to compare stories here…I am pursuing. Thanks.
March 5th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
Since Carma has noted my silence the past several months I feel compelled to offer a briefing posting. There are a lot of things I’d like to say but I am limited due to some of the on-going discussions currently taking place with the DOL. I understand the anger of those posting their experiences of having their vehicles impounded. Private impounds are expensive in Seattle and are as much a penalty for parking on someone’s private property without that business owner’s permission. The State of Washington approves all towing and Impound charges. Some of the bloggers have taken great delight in the negative media attention and allegations made of TBT Towing. I believe that in this country we are still innocent until PROVEN guilty and we have yet to have our day in court. We have already proven the Starbucks lied on numerous statements they have made including their approval of tows. While the proof has not been made public yet it soon will be and each person can judge the merits of that proof. In our own internal investigation we did find three drivers who were bending and breaking the laws concerning impounding and their contracts were terminated. One of your writers accused me of lying and that is not accurate. As I have stated all along we have a company policy that bans all types of patrol towing and any other violations of state law. I also have said all along that I can not be in every truck and watching the actions of every driver on every tow. When complaints are filed they are investigated and we go from there. The truth is that no one agrees with any practice that allows their car to be impounded and when it happens to them they are majorly pissed. That’s why there is the Impound Court where everyone gets a fair hearing. I am all for bloggers writing anything that’s on their mind, even as some of the postings here have been, what is being posted in accurate. In fairness though, I hope that in the midst of lively and important debate, everyone keeps in mind that at this point in time the allegations against our company are just that, allegations. And, these allegations have all been based on information from one side of the issue and that we have yet to be given the opportunity to fully be heard and our side of the story be heard. Hopefully in the very near future we will have our web site up and running and there will be time and a place for the full story to be told. In the mean time, regardless of whether your car ends up impounded by our company or one of the other towing companies and you feel that it wasn’t fair, avail yourselves of impound court where you’ll get a fair opportunity to plead your case. Good luck to all of you and be a little bit fair and hold up on your final judgement until our side has a chance to be heard.
March 15th, 2005 at 3:16 am
LOL…rick has “painted” himself into a corner. Yes you can’t be in every truck as you state but you are responsible for every truck. Stop ripping good people off…bottom feeder.
March 15th, 2005 at 3:24 am
I’d like to keep things civil here, so I’d appreciate it if people could avoid name-calling, no matter which side you may be on.
March 15th, 2005 at 1:58 pm
I’ve watched the TBT sleazoids doing their dirty deeds…all lined up like aligators on the river bank, waiting for their prey. And Mr. Rick of TBT Fame:
does anybody at all believe this bottom feeder?!
I was in the underground parking lot of the Fremont PCC last Friday evening,
where I’ve parked dozens of times…all for the sake of spending lots of cash
at the Fremont PCC. I was in the store about 20 minutes. When I come out to
my properly parked car (one of about 10 cars out of 150+ slots), there is
an envelope on my windshield with a computerized printout from DIAMOND PARKING RIPOFF, INC. saying that my vehicle was “improperly parked.”
Well, I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. I mean, the car was in the
lirttle slot, between the little white lines!! Anyways, they want me to pay
a fee of $25. And if I don’t pay within 15 days, it goes to $50 and off to collection. How sweet! Well, if those rich, arrogant bastards at DIAMOND
think that I’m going to pay anything to them they are Fucked! I wrote a letter
to PCC management, exclaiming my horror and the simple fact that since parking in Fremont and any time is rough, that if I cannot park in that lot, then I cannot
shop at PCC! Well, folks, that’s where the buck stops, I guess, cause PCC said they would “handle it” for me. And that is fine with me, too. Cause, about a month ago, some friends and I were at a show in Belltown and parked in a Diamond lot. We’d paid fully…I mean, why not? It’s a pay lot- we all understood that. Simple enough. And I personally handed the money directly to the attendant.
Well, 3 hours later, the attendant is gone and there’s this freakin’ lock-device type thingy attached to my front driver’s wheel. I used to be the wrecking yard
business and I accumulated lots of spare tools in my time there. Two such items,
a butane torch and a serious pair of bolt cutters.
So, rather than calling the cops and screaming and shouting. I simply fired up the torch and cut the little fucker off of my car, taking it home with me to inspect later on. I suggest everybody gets themselves a torch and a bolt cutter.
It’s either that or they get a gun and shoot the fuckers!
March 15th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
Didn’t I just say to avoid the name-calling here? You can complain about TBT much more effectively without resorting to that.
Anyway. Yeah, in my experience when you pay Diamond the odds are still relatively good that they will claim you didn’t. It happened to me a bunch of times. In your case, are you sure the attendant worked for Diamond and wasn’t just some guy hanging around to fool people? Of course he might have been a Diamond employee and just pocketed the money. In my experience with this it was always an unattended lot, so I figured that maybe people were stealing from the box. However… I always paid with checks, and they were always cashed, so apparently that wasn’t what was going on. At least whenever I called Diamond to complain they always told me not to pay the fee.
I like your solution to the wheel boot.
March 18th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Whoa! Remind me to use public tranportation next time I visit Seattle. It seems that predatory tow operators are everywhere, including So Cal. Congressman Cox of Newport Beach has co-authored an amendment to a transportation bill that will make tow operators answerable to state and local regulators (the wonderful 9th Circuit Court effectively invalidated California laws that protected against such as TBT). Look for him at http://www.house.gov. Good Luck all in your efforts.
April 12th, 2005 at 2:22 pm
Greetings all,
Towing is a nationwide epidemic. I am speaking here on behalf of DC, Maryland, and Virgina ! I have been a victim myself ! Of rogue and ‘unlawful’ towing. For which the private property owner actually reimbursed me, knowing that they were wrong in towing. This was after I filed this issue in a small claims court in Maryland.
Check out my blog: http://towingandautotheft.blogspot.com
Feel free to post comments.
Regards,
Stanely.
April 15th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
I’ve just spent an interesting few minutes reading this page, and it’s a bit of an eye opener. I live in England, and we have similar problems here, though not as bad as you seem to have. I live near a city called Brighton on the south coats, and they have a very aggressive towing policy there. It used to be that parking violations were the domain of the police, then they introduced traffic wardens, still the responsibilty of the police, but solely used to issue tickets. Now traffic wardens are employed either by local councils or, more commonly, by private companies who are contracted by councils to provide this ’service’. And as you expect, where a company is involved and there is money to be made, we have abuses. I was towed myself a while ago, at a cost of �120 (which is about $220 at curent rates), for no apparent reason. I thought my car had been stolen, a call to the local police gave no sign it had been towed (they should be informed immediately), but luckily I managed to get a lift to the impound yard and get it back. An expensive night out. One person I know had his car towed, the police were never informed and it sat in the pound for 3 months, clocking up ’storage charges’. I believe it ended up with a bill of over �3000, although at least in this case was cancelled. But these companies are still active, still towing perfectly legally parked cars, and since the only way to get them back is to pay, pay we do. Add in the speed cameras that bloom like a rash over our roads and driving out of your own driveway is likely to cost you hundereds of pounds.
We do have our own way of getting back though, http://www.anglegrinderman.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
May 9th, 2005 at 11:57 pm
In response to comment #37, and various others that look like some people may not have enough knowledge about predatory towing and the likes. In summary, research and/or contact your county or city government to find out about your local tow and impound $$ cost caps. There will definitely be some. Just like pretty much all other cities and counties in the U.S.
If you clearly see that the tow and impoundment was done without a probable cause, and/or without the due process of the law, and if the involved parties do not agree to reimburse you, then consider filing a small claims action in your local district or civil court. That should straighten out a few brain cells of the involved parties !
For more details, feel free to check out my blog and surf/search through it:
http://towingandautotheft.blogspot.com/
Enjoy. And good luck.
Stanley.
http://towingandautotheft.blogspot.com/
May 28th, 2005 at 10:19 pm
I know I’m late chiming in on this, but I thought I’d add a little different perspective. First and foremost, I should say I am the Operations Manager of a large towing company in the Tacoma Area. We do have contracts with property owners but the focus of our business is commercial accounts and private customers. This is because I would much rather wake from my bed and leave my family to help a stranded motorist than to become the parking lot police for some pub or apartment complex. One larger firm in town seems to have the majority of the private impound business and I have heard rumors that their methods are a little on the gray side of the law. That being said, not all tow operators are crooks or predatory. Many of us in the industry suffer with the poor image displayed by our competitors. Secondly, in the State of Washington, the property owner or owners agent must be present at the time of impound. This law is intended to stop patrol or predatory towing which is illegal in this state. Third, every person is afforded due process through an impound hering and the tow truck company MUST give the person redeeming a vehicle an impound hearing request form. If you do get towed, and you think it was wrong, request a hearing and you get to bring the people who had you towed into Court. If you prevail, the court will award you the impound fees, filing fees and loss of use (currently defined as $50 a day). Finally, all rogue tow companies should be exposed and hopefully shut down. It’s good for the consumer and for the industry. Before everyone dismisses the towing industry as full of bad people, remember who will risk their lives on the side of the freeway in all weather conditions at all times of day for the stranded motorist (10 tow operators in America have been killed while on duty this year alone).
Thanks
links of interest
http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=46.55.080&fuseaction=section
http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=46.55.120&fuseaction=section
http://www.towtimes.com/html/towersmemorial2005.html
May 29th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Thank you, Dave! I know that not all tow operators are “on the dark side.” I have been rescued by a tow truck a time or two myself.
It’s just the rogues that need to be exposed, as you say. Thank you for the perspective and the useful information!
July 1st, 2005 at 11:31 pm
WOW… Thanks for this thread. I just had an agitating evening that almost exactly mirrored Peter in #44. Exactly the same place, too. PCC parking garage. I ran in for 10 minutes to buy some fruit & bottled water, and came out to find a $30 fine for “improper parking.”
Then I google Diamond Parking to find out that they’ve had class action lawsuits filed against them… This lawyer’s website has some information and newsclippings about Diamond Parking. http://www.hbharti.com/bharti_introduction.php
I was furious in any event about the parking ticket, because in my opinion, there had been no infraction. I was in a non-reserved spot, within the white lines, (aside from one tire that marginally touched the painted line by 1 inch.)
This is the email I sent out- and I also sent it to King 5 and Komo4, and I’ll be sending it to PCC, and also to the local congress people.
To Whom It May Concern-
On the evening of July 1st, I was visiting a friend in Fremont and stopped by the PCC Grocery for five minutes. I have never parked in this garage before, so I was very cautious to leave my vehicle in a stall that was not reserved. There were several signs that said “90 minutes free parking while shopping.” I also asked another grocery store patron if it was indeed true that there was free parking for shoppers, and she confirmed that this was so.
After my quick five-minute dash into the store, I returned to find a $30 fee on my windshield for “Improper Parking.”
The only possible “wrong-doing” I can think of is that my back right tire was barely touching the painted line. If this is a $30 violation, it would be decent of your management to warn patrons ahead of time that slightly skewed wheels will result in financial detriment. I DID NOT SEE ANY SIGNS upon entering or leaving the garage that warned me about your made-up “improper parking” rules. Had I been completely over the line, I could understand the fine, but I was only touching the line with a part of my back tire. Besides that, it was necessary for me to park slightly right of center in the stall, because I was parked next to one of the cement support posts, and had to leave enough clearance on the drivers’ side to open my door and walk out.
I went back up to the store, and talked to the manager who was very helpful, even though he said that the parking garage was out of PCC’s control. He took my name and number, and also reiterated that SEVERAL of the PCC clientele have aired complaints about the Diamond Parking facility and their overly zealous parking-fine trickery.
Perhaps you offer ninety minutes free parking so that you can send your staff in to fine your patrons for absurd secret “infractions.” Certainly this is a much more profitable scheme for you, but I find it unscrupulous. It’s a classic “Bait & Switch” tactic. Clearly, this is an ongoing rash of bad business on your part to gain financially from people who are eager to make use of your “free parking” offer.
I have looked up your business online, and found several mentions of class action lawsuits, and complaints. I am not planning on using a Diamond Parking lot again. This is an absurd fine, and my lawyer has already heard about this as of this evening. If this fee is not waived, I will consider filing a claim against your business. I will not hesitate to bring it to the attention of the Better Business Bureau, and anyone else who might be interested in hearing about it. Furthermore, I will advise my friends & family to not support your parking lots in the City of Seattle or elsewhere. Your business practices are highly questionable.
July 31st, 2005 at 12:55 pm
hello! glad to see people are on the ball against TBT towing -0 and without resorting to name caling, RICK, your business largely survives on victimizing people. i was towed last year from the KFC in CAPITOL HILL. without going into specifics there were more than a few inconsistencies as to why i was towed, when and who authorized it. i dont belive for a second KFC called you and said
“tow these people”. DO YOU REALLY EXPECT US TO BELIEVE MINIMUM WAGE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO WASTE ANY TIME CALLING YOU TO TOW OTHER HARD WORKING PEOPLE?!? please! we all know the scam - youve got a commision deal going with the owners, or property owners to tow at will, and you give them a kickback. when i called KFC they were adamant that they dont care. now i admit that i was wrong - but is it so bad that i was there (in a spot marked “patient parking” no less) till 1 am, in an empty lot? and your “trash and needles” reasoning is complete bullshit. and here’s another kicker that works in TBT’s favor - when i got towed, during my busiest work time of the year, i didnt get around to filing for a hearng til 2 weeks later - guess what? YOU ONLY HAVE 10 DAYS! why is it when the government is doing something for you it takes at least 30 days, but when im fighting for my rights or against a SCAM i only get 10 days? and certainly dont act like youre not OVERCHARGING - i paid you $350 - thats robbery!!! and when the cops came to TBT HQ even THEY said it was ridiculous.
i cant wait til your ass gets shut down, and i WILL have my revenge…
so to anyone that found their way here cuz theyre googling TBT and wondering how to get their money back (unless they deserve to be towed, which im sure does happen RARELY):
FILE WITHIN 10 DAYS FOR A HEARING!!
TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS!!
CHECK EVERYWHERE YOU PARK FOR ANY TOWING SIGNS SO THEY DONT MAKE MONEY ON YOU!
maybe we should start pranking TBT to divert those trucks from their profitable “hot-spots”
September 19th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
I was recently towed on sept. 15 from sunfish fish and chips on Alki at 11:30 at night. I was next door at a bar, and when I came out, my car was gone. After calling tbt, I went to get my car and was told that the owner of the sunfish called because the “dump truck comes at 7 AM to get the dumpster.” I was towed 7.5 hours before the truck came! the sunfish had been closed for a couple of hours, so how did tbt get a call from them? It was also explained to me by the bar manager the the owner of sunfish has a grudge against the bar i was at, and told tbt to come by anytime after sunfish closed and tow any car in the lot. this does not amount to legal authorization, and I will be fighting it. I will be forwarding this case to the WA State Patrol and the King County prosecutor if I find out the sunfish owner was not present at the time of towing, then I will contact all local media about tbt AND the sunfish. If it was legal, then I’m obviously sol…
September 21st, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Well, I went back to the office of tbt towing today to request the paperwork to file an impound hearing, and they refused to give it to me! They also refused to show me the signature of the property owner authorizing the towing of my vehicle. With little recourse, I contacted the P-I reporter investigating tbt, and she told me to contact the DOL. After the DOL, I tried contacting the WA State Patrol Trooper in charge of the tbt investigation, and am now waiting to hear back. If anyone reads this because they’re going through hassles with tbt, DON’T ROLL OVER AND LET THEM DO THIS TO YOU!!! FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE DOL! Hopefully, with enough complaints, the state will get in gear and strip these thieving bastards of their license!
November 12th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
Hi Guys - ran across this discussion down here in Sand Francisco, CA looking up traffic fine info on the web. VERY intersting as I have family in Seattle and Diamond and TBT are really earning reputations that are paralelling what happened years ago in San Francisco, CA. Rick, I guess all I can suggest in this situation is you can certainly do you job well - but you might also consider more doing it right, because if TBT winds up on the front page and in the middle of a bunch of headaches - at last you’ll have a lot of experience to learn from as companies refuse to do business with TBT and you look for a new job. Maybe we can start getting the word out here in San Francisco a little bit by boycotting StarBucks locally here and letting them know we’re doing it because of TBT towing practices in Seattle. We’ve got a few thousand coffee drinkers here we can sway.
November 13th, 2005 at 3:20 am
Hi Dan,
Starbucks disassociated themselves from TBT pretty quickly after the ruckus broke out in the press, and later events have indicated that Starbucks probably had nothing to do with the towing — see this post and this post. So boycotting Starbucks probably isn’t necessary in this case.
November 24th, 2005 at 3:37 am
mtsnowman, if you read this again… according to the story I linked here, the DoL hasn’t received any complaints about TBT since August 2004! What happened to yours? I can’t e-mail you to ask because you didn’t post with an e-mail address.
Anyway, for the rest of you who stumbled on this post, the story linked above is the most recent part of this saga.
November 26th, 2005 at 9:07 am
had a similar experience with being towed after hours in bothell, closed dentist office, local football game (supporting our youth) towed to the tune of 364.00, I’m sure the dentist was there to sign the authorization…. sky valley towing are the crooks this time, will be filing a complaint
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:51 pm
We had a problem some years back down in Miami with Predatory Bootings. The boot company would lay in wait and if someone went anywhere before or after shopping there, they would immediately boot the car, and charge some exhorbitant fee - $500 if I remember correctly - to take it off.
I’ve never had my vehicle towed/booted, but I have received a couple parking tickets. One in 1998 was because I didn’t see the “No Parking” sign, and there were like 20 cars parked there. I ending up paying that one as I was illegaly parked. My parents got one in the University parking lot while we were being shown the campus. The meters only ran for I think 1 Hour [that was the most money they would accept]…and the tour ran slightly over the hour. They found a ticket on their car written only minutes after the meter would have run out. But, alas they never paid it. As it was issued by the college, not the police, they simply never brought that vehicle back on campus.
The other was in 2002, and I was definitely not illegaly parked. I was taking classes at a state university. During 2002, they began expansion on the dorms, and some of the existing resident spaces were going to be inaccesible. There were at that time two reserved (all the spots were painted blue - residents only - and the lots were specifically posted as residents only) lots for residents. There were two commuter lots equadistant from the dorms. One was on the East side and one on the West.
The East side one was always full, and it was always difficult to find a space. The one on the West was never full and always had dozens of extra spaces. Guess which one they decided to take spaces from - the East - which made it all the harder to find spaces. But, what they did was repaint all the student spaces blue (resident only), but had left the Green/Yellow (Staff/Professor) spaces unchanged. No sign was placed on the lot designating it as reserved. Presumably, only the Blue spaces were specifically reserved for residents only.
The parking rules at that time stated there were two reserved lots [and this was not one of them] and that after a certain time in the afternoon, students could park in Green and Yellow spaces [normally reserved for Staff and Professors.] I had a night class. So, since the rules said you could park in any Green or Yellow space after a certain time, and it was past that time, I parked in one of the Green (Staff) spaces in that lot. When I got out of class, I found a ticket on my windshield for “Reserved Lot”. I requested a form to appeal it, and demostrated that 1) the lot was not listed as reserved in the parking rules, 2) there was no sign on the lot indicating that it was reserved, 3) that I parked in a staff space, which under parking rules was allowable after a certain hour, and 4) that the ticket was issued well after that set time.
They would not let me register for the next semester until I paid [even though it was under appeal,] and since I was a Senior I could normally register on the first day of registration. Not wanting to get shut out of my classes, I checked into it and was told that if my appeal was successfull, they would refund the money. So, I paid. I never heard back about my appeal, and when I checked into it, I found out they had upheld the ticket in some kind of closed-door session which I was never told of nor invited to speak [on my behalf] at. I noticed that most, if not all of the tickets had been upheld.
My guess is that since I had already paid [under the threat of being shut out of classes, while I waited on my appeal], there was no way in hell they would have ever given me my money back, even if I was legally parked. The next year they put up a sign specifying the lot was reserved.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Well, damn, they made a deal. Too bad, huh? They shoulda put the sonofabitch out of business! Well, this is further proof that the laws are written to protect the business owners, not regular people like us.
December 25th, 2005 at 7:20 pm
Ummm… if a vehicle is removed from a parking space by someone other than the owner and it is done fraudulently and without permission, why is this not Grand Theft Auto?
If the rules are followed, and the vehicle is legitimately owed, that is one thing. If the rules aren’t followed, it’s vehicle theft - and that’s a felony.
Just because they are licensed to tow vehicles doesn’t change the fact that misusing the tools they are licensed to use doesn’t give them any more rights than anyone else. I am licensed to cary a gun. I am licensed to use it to defend myself and for safe, authorized recreation. If I misuse that gun and kill someone with it, I’m guilty of murder - license or no license.
The drivers should be in jail. They are giving legitimate tow truck operators a bad name!
December 30th, 2005 at 11:17 pm
Wow. What a site. Here’s what I’ve seen so far. I’ve seen a representative from TBT towing answer all allegations presented against him in a professional and direct manner. I have also seen almost every poster here who has had their car towed for illegally parking on someone else’s property (hence, violating that persons property rights) use the most revolting and confrontational language in their posts in vain attempts to make everyone understand that they are special and should be allowed to violate others property rights. The people that have had their car towed usually start with some sort of slanderous or filthy remark (like sleaziod) then continue to tell their story on how they parked in one companies lot, then walked across the street to the bar for 40 minutes and them scream bloody murder because they got caught!
As far as I am concerned, Once I hear “I only parked there for a minute” or “I didn’t see the 2 foot x 2 foot neon sign” that’s as far as the story needs to go. You deserve having your car towed.
Signs or no signs, just because you own a car doesn’t mean you can park on my lawn, even if it is made out of asphalt! It’s not a horse and you can’t shoot mefor taking it.
I am continually shocked by people since I started this line of work. I too, own a towing company that impounds peoples illegally parked cars.
Now, Unlike Rick, I will tell you like it is.
1.) 98 out of 100 peoples cars that we tow tell at least one ball faced lie in an attempt to get their car back. They will lie to anyone, police, the media, it doesn’t matter. Police in my area always side with me because I am not the one breaking the law, the media always sides with the car owner because they aren’t interested in truth, only newspaper sales and conflict sells papers.
2.) The sign NEVER says the right thing. Private Parking, Customer Parking Only, NO PARKING, they all mean the same thing, PRIVATE. In other words, if there is no sign that expressly says PUBLIC PARKING FOR EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY AT ANY TIME, then it is a private lot! If you park your car there and leave the property, I’m going to take it.
3.) Most states do not require any signage whatsoever. The property owners rights prevail no matter what. That is as it should be! I only post signs as a courtesy and a little free advertising for my company.
4.) It doesn’t matter if you are pregnant and lactating.
5.) It does not matter if you are unloading groceries in a fire lane with your kid asleep in the back seat!
6.) Buying a coffee or a burger does NOT give you an all day parking pass.
I have been in the towing industry since the 70’s. I only just recently started taking on these types of accounts and I have to tell you, I have never seen so many liars and cheats. I have never seen so many people who will go to completely ludicrous lengths to justify why parking their car on my property should NOT cost them. Who do you people think you are anyway?
Now, here’s some kewl facts that most of you never think of.
1) BILLIONS of dollars in sales are lost each year to illegally parked cars.
2) BILLIONS of dollars in parking lot maintenance is spent each year by companies to repair the DAMAGE done by illegal parkers.
3) Property owners pay FAR MORE property taxes to the local government than you do. They ARE the silent majority and you don’t stand a chance.
4) Patrol or Predatory towing are terms coined by the media in their never ending pursuit of ‘Jerry Springerism’ (Now there’s a meaningful coined term!). They cannot be properly applied to the towing industry. Those terms would lead someone to believe that we outright steal cars for a living, we do not. We ALWAYS receive a request from someone to tow a car, either by the car owner themselves, a violated property owner or the police.
MOST parking problems come from zoning officials who allow builders to build parking facilities that are way too small for the expected volume of cars that a new business is going to create. This is usually the result of a payoff. Don’t believe me? Go to the local zoning board in your area and get a copy of the regulations regarding parking spaces required, then drive around town and check it out. I bet you’ll find a ton of larger companies and/or franchise restaurants (like Chipotles, etc) that have access to very large amounts of cash whose parking lots are only 50% or less of whats required by the zoning rules. They knew their customers would just invade the surrounding businesses lots and they really didn’t care.
The media is the worst problem we face. Selling newspapers isn’t about truth or information anymore, it’s about Jerry Springerism. There’s the story about the lady that parked her car in a fire lane left her son sleeping in the car UNATTENDED, and went upstairs. The car was towed. They discovered the child when they go to the yard. They tried to hang the tow driver for it. Why? because the media attacked the tow company and the driver for stealing this womans child! Now I ask you, who is really at fault? If I was married and my wife left my child sleeping in an open car in a fire lane at night in an apartment complex, I’D DIVORCE HER AND SUE FOR CUSTODY! There was one reporter last year that was fired after it was discovered that he had manipulated the information on a towing story just to sensationalize it. Where did they print the retraction? On page 8583928326453623728 right next to the used tampon ad.
Property owners. They are put between a rock and a hard place by people like you that think “I am an American, I can park my wheelbox anywhere I want!” They don’t want everyone to think they are bad people but they have to do something. They are losing MASSIVE amounts of money to idiots and their cars.
By the time most of my customers call me, they are desperate. they have tried putting notes on the cars, didn’t work, they even payed an employee to stand in the parking lot and tell people they can’t park there, usually the car owner flips them off or gets confrontational and leaves anyway daring them to tow their car! In the end they are left with one alternative, getting aggressive and removing the offending cars. That’s where I come in.
2 minutes or less, wheels turned, backed in, allwheel drive, it doesn’t matter. Once I back up to your car, (I don’t even have to hook it) you owe me $53. I can even take the time to boot it for an additional $50.00, once that’s all done, If you refuse to pay me, in cash, on the spot, I’ll tow it anyway. That will most assuredly push the bill over $250 total. Call the cops, I’ll continue to hook it while you are dialing them, if you haven’t forked over the cash before I’m done, I’ll STILL leave with your car. The cops will arrive, probably after I am already gone and tell you that you just made a VERY expensive mistake.
As far as Rick and his Starbucks account, it sounds to me like he has a hell of a job there. It would be my bet that NO ONE was ever towed at exactly 12:01 Unless that store was closed, lights off and the employees gone. A MUCH MORE LIKELY SCENARIO is a lying car owner who will stop at nothing to get revenge. As far as the signed invoices issue? I’ll bet all the notoriety scared the local store manager. Probably some cub reporter trying to create his own version of Jerry Springerism made him think he was in some sort of trouble and he lied about the signed invoices to protect his own ass.
It will all come out in the wash. It always does and I will stand with my tow brother Rick and TBT towing until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he broke the rules.
Bill Weihrouch
Skyline Recovery Systems
Golden, Colorado
http://www.skytowing.com
http://www.towtalk.net
December 31st, 2005 at 3:57 am
Now, Unlike Rick, I will tell you like it is.
Lots of hyperbolic assertions with zero facts to back them up from someone who is in the business of collecting extortion fees, erm, “vehicle releae fees.”
The sign NEVER says the right thing. Private Parking, Customer Parking Only, NO PARKING, they all mean the same thing, PRIVATE. In other words, if there is no sign that expressly says PUBLIC PARKING FOR EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY AT ANY TIME, then it is a private lot! If you park your car there and leave the property, I’m going to take it.
If you took the time to review the facts, you would know that TBT’s commissioned drivers would (1) lie in wait to (2) tow the CUSTOMER’S cars who were still in the store (3) at 12:01 A.M. when (4) it’s SBUX corporate policy not to boot people out until they’re just about to lock up. Sorry to confuse you with the facts.
1) BILLIONS of dollars in sales are lost each year to illegally parked cars.
More unsupported assertions with no facts to back them up.
Patrol or Predatory towing are terms coined by the media in their never ending pursuit of ‘Jerry Springerism’ (Now there’s a meaningful coined term!). They cannot be properly applied to the towing industry. Those terms would lead someone to believe that we outright steal cars for a living, we do not.
Well, the DOL found otherwise with regard to TBT. Sorry. And those terms are rightfully applied to sleazebags like TBT and West Coast.
We ALWAYS receive a request from someone to tow a car, either by the car owner themselves, a violated property owner or the police.
West Coast Towing didn’t, and were promptly given the smackdown by the Federal courts and the Washington DOL.
There’s the story about the lady that parked her car in a fire lane left her son sleeping in the car UNATTENDED, and went upstairs. The car was towed . . .
A non sequitur if there ever was one. It’s a word. Look it up. But then, you’re a tow truck driver, do you have more than a sixth grade education? I doubt it.
2 minutes or less, wheels turned, backed in, allwheel drive, it doesn’t matter. Once I back up to your car, (I don’t even have to hook it) you owe me $53. I can even take the time to boot it for an additional $50.00, once that’s all done, If you refuse to pay me, in cash, on the spot, I’ll tow it anyway.
That’s fine, I’ll just sit in the driver’s seat. You can’t tow it with me in it. If you get in my face, you’ll be greeted with a squirt from my oleoresin capsicum canister (that’s “pepper spray”). And booting is illegal in the state of Washington. Nice try.
It will all come out in the wash. It always does and I will stand with my tow brother Rick and TBT towing until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he broke the rules.
You’re not in very good company. He lost his license, but the only reason he’s not working at Wal-Mart like he should is because the laws are written to protect you guys, not us.
January 1st, 2006 at 1:38 pm
“A non sequitur if there ever was one. It’s a word. Look it up. But then, you’re a tow truck driver, do you have more than a sixth grade education? I doubt it.”
Latin for “it does not follow…” Where’s the confusion there? You don’t park in fire lanes. If and when you do, in most states under the law you are subject to immediate towing. See the connection? Park in a fire lane, get towed. If the fire department has to come in for a fire, and there is a car blocking the way, lives can be lost if they have to contact the manager, get his or her signature, etc. etc. Hence, the ‘immdediate tow’ law in MOST states.
Most owners of tow companies also tow, and most of us have a degree in business. First you complain about things being said without any backup, then YOU say essentially “All tow truck drivers are under educated.” Where is the study for your fact?
“That’s fine, I’ll just sit in the driver’s seat. You can’t tow it with me in it. If you get in my face, you’ll be greeted with a squirt from my oleoresin capsicum canister (that’s “pepper spray”). And booting is illegal in the state of Washington. Nice try.”
Do that. You can be arrested for trespass if you do so, and can get a ride in the back seat of the police car. Pepper spray would be another charge of assult.
Bottom line, if you don’t own the spot you are parking on, you are parking on someone’s property. If they call me to come get you, and sign the necessary form for me to do so, I will tow. That’s my job. It’s interesting, when I show up to help you on the road–give you a jump, or change your tire, or tow you to the dealer to get it fixed–I’m a hero. When I tow your car that you left at one business to go to another business, suddenly I’m a SOB. Same truck, same person, same job. Strange indeed.
Oh, and to answer a question from several posts back that I didn’t see answered:
#9 Miss Lugo says:
May 5th, 2004 at 7:33 am
“One other note! WHO is the “authorized” person from Starbucks or any other business that makes the decision and signs an agreement saying the vehicles can be towed? I’d like to see a paper trail and find out how someone is authorized by a company to make such a decision!!!”
The person authorized to call and sign by the owner of the business, in most cases is the shift manager. Usually the owner will tell us who is authorized when they first contact us to care for their lot. We don’t want to get into any arguments between employees or customers either. We (or at least speaking for myself, but it seems to be common practice) don’t take calls to tow from just anyone, but only those authorized to call. In the case of an apartment complex, it would be the owner or manager, not just one of the tenants mad because their space is occupied. Again, the ones authorized are set up in advance.
January 9th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
My situation is similar to #44 and #52. Last week I parked at the PCC lot in Freemont for about 10 minutes, only to come back with a $30 ticket on my windshield. I got out of my car and relized that my two right tires were BARELY touching the white line dividing the parking spots. It was late in the evening and there weren’t many cars parked there, and I certainly wasn’t preventing anyone else from using any other parking spaces.
I called Diamond Parking to complain and they said since it was my first ticket, they would do me a “courtesy” and drop the ticket.
There have been many complaints about Diamond Parking and for good reason - to give someone a $30 ticket for something so petty - that a tire was touching a white line is ridiculous. We need to tell PCC and any other companies that use Diamond Parking that the situation is unacceptable, and that we will no longer do business with them as long as they use Diamond Parking to zealously patrol their lots.
I recommend writing to this person at PCC and tell her what you think about them using Diamond Parking:
Public Affairs Manager, Trudy Bialic: trudy.bialic@pccsea.com
January 10th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Correction to post #66:
The proper person to contact at PCC for Diamond Parking complaints at their stores is:
Diana Crane, Community & Public Relations Manager: Diana.Crane@pccsea.com
After I complained to them about Diamond Parking’s overzealous parking enforcement, here is the response I received from her:
We have heard from other shoppers that parking enforcement in the garage seems to be more stringent than necessary, but there is also some justification for it being so. The reality is that PCC is one of several Epi Building tenants and as such we don’t set the rules for use of the limited number of spaces in the parking lot, or monitor their compliance. We have tried to warn our shoppers about the parking restrictions through posted signs, and both our Fremont store director and I have been assured by the local manager of Diamond Parking that he is working with parking lot monitors regarding their judgment in issuing citations. It can be a tough call for the monitors in that improper parking on the part of some customers truly does prevent the use of adjacent spots by others, and as Diamond Parking employees they are trying to fulfill their obligation to maximize available parking for customers of all building tenants.
January 11th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
Thanks for the follow-up, Josh.
March 9th, 2006 at 8:14 pm
Hi, I need help with a TBT Towing situation. I was recently about to get my car towed but got there before they could hook it up to their truck and take it away. I parked on private property and told the owner it was there and they said it was ok. Apparently, he got my car confused with someone else that left they car without permission and called it in to get it towed. When I got there, the owner told the truck driver that he wanted to retract the authorization to tow the car but he wouldnt do it. So do escape the hassle, i just paid the $217 and want to request an impound hearing…now, what am I suppose to do? Thanks in advance for all of those who can help!
–Leyla
March 9th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Leyla, there was a message further up on this page that said:
“…Every person is afforded due process through an impound hearing and the tow truck company MUST give the person redeeming a vehicle an impound hearing request form. If you do get towed, and you think it was wrong, request a hearing and you get to bring the people who had you towed into Court. If you prevail, the court will award you the impound fees, filing fees and loss of use (currently defined as $50 a day).”
Someone else, though, mentioned that when they were towed by TBT, TBT refused to give them a copy of the form. Have no fear — the form is on the DOL website: Impounded Vehicle Hearing Request Form. But you only have 10 days to submit the form, so do it now! It sounds like you have a pretty good shot at getting your money back!
March 10th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
Thanks litlnemo!!
I have been on the phone all morning since today is the 10th day of when I got my car back. I finally got a hold of someone who knew a little about the whole process and was in charge of the towing that takes place on public property. Since mine was on private property, he said he didnt know details but to go ahead and file the request for the hearing since the tow truck driver didnt provide me with proper documentation when I paid for my car. Apparently, not only are you suppose to get a receipt (or an invoice) but also a form stating that we have a right to a hearing aka right of redemption when they tow our car and they release it (like the other person said). So aside from them ‘trying’ to tow my car and not releasing it at the property owner’s request, they didnt follow procedure. Hopefully this all comes out positively….for me. Thanks again for all of your help and thanks for that link.
April 4th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
My husband and I were a victim of predatory towing we live in Westward Look Apartments in Arvada Colorado. Our trailer was towed by Max Towing on March 17 due to our tag being expired. We found out that Colorado Law has a 30 day grace period on expired tags(my grace period would have ended on 3/22/06). I had the tag in my possession but with the unfavorable weather conditions we did not put the tag on. Basically I would have had to stand on ice and try to put a tag on. We did not know the trailer was towed until we got a certified letter from the tow company. It is not like you check to make sure your trailer is there everyday unless you use it for work. The bill was $370.00!!! The apartment people and the trailer people were very rude I did get rude back at them. I am writing a letter to the district manager of the property I want my money back and I want this predatory towing stopped. Residents pay too much money to live here to have this happen. I will let you know what happens.
April 23rd, 2006 at 5:52 am
omg, I can’t believe this post-response is still going on!
My friend recently was towed (last night 1am) in Atlanta. They were in a restaurant across the street from a lot they parked at in downtown for less than ten minutes when half their group ran outside because one yelled “My car is moving!” (he had GPS and got an alert). The lot was full when they entered the store, and almost deserted when they exited. Turns out the stoolies were this guy/girl spotter couple in a car at the lot.
Thing is, Georgia rules state (in the application for a nonconsensual towing license) that:
“Surveillance of Private Property:
It is illegal to enter into any agreement to provide automatic or systematic surveillance of a property for the purpose of removing trespassing vehicles or property. O.C.G.A. § 44-1-13(f) states that towing companies must be called by the property owner or authorized agent for each individual case of trespass. It is the Commission’s suggestion that wrecker services have the property owner/agent sign a statement or invoice authorizing the removal.”
And Auto/Systematic Surveillance includes:
“-Any agreement, verbal or written, to drive through a property and remove any vehicle which has been tagged with a warning or a notice by the property owner/agent unless the wrecker service has been contacted to remove the
- Any agreement, verbal or written, to drive through a property and tag certain vehicles with warning notices (such as vehicles without proper parking decals, invalid tags, etc.) and the remove the vehicle after the warning has expired.
Only the property owner/agent can identify vehicles for removal.
- Any Power of Attorney or contract between the wrecker service and the property owner/agent to automatically remove vehicles parked on the premises of an abandon or vacant property without being contacted by the property
- Entering a restaurant or other place of business, asking the patrons to identify their vehicles, and then impounding any vehicle not claimed by a patron or employee.
- Impounding any vehicle left in the parking lot after business has closes its doors for the evening.
- Having an agreement with an employee of a business, who has not been authorized by the property owner (clerk, security guard, waitress, etc.) to contact you for when they observe a possible trespassing vehicle.”
I think a couple thats just sitting in a car, when a store has been closed for 8 hours, do not count as agents or even principals who are authorized to call a service out to a lot that is not there.
A final note for my friend’s bad luck: We speculate his car was specifically targeted among others because he ran Florida tags since he was only there for a special tournament going on that weekend, and that the company knew he would be more desperate to reclaim his auto.
My limited research to georgia nothwithstanding, I’ll be doing some digging on Florida’s own regs, because I will be damned if I’m not prepared to fight the wrecker service when my time comes, with the army of FL trials behind me.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:06 pm
I know that this towing situation took place in Seattle but most states have similar laws and city or county regulations governing towing companies. In fact many laws or regulations are just copies from other states or cities that have tried it first.
I was towed in San Francisco. I researched the law and got my money back. Then I decided to help others by posting a primer on Illegal Towing Practices or Predatory Towing as it has become known on the Web. It is quite comprehensive and probably paralells many of the situations you have had happen to you. You can find my site at http://sftow.blogspot.com/
Probably the biggest unknown fact about predatory towing is that in most situations the law requires the owner of the property where the car is parked, or his designated representative, to actually be PRESENT at the time of the tow. This means if you car was towed from a bank parking lot at midnight the bank manager or his representative must have actually been present in person when the tow truck hauled your car away. The chances of this happening are slim or none.
Read my blog for all the law you will need. Then just check these California provisions, both City and State, against your City and State provisions. It is fairly simple. Most everything is on line so you don’t need to make a trip to the law library or to city hall. Good luck.
June 26th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Hi,
This thread was quite interesting in light of my recent run in with TBT. It was in Donna’s parking lot like one of the previous posters. I’m unsure if I really have a legal case, but I know I feel that TBT runs a very unethical business. If I can’t get my $350 I would like them to lose $350 in business, so I have posted reviews/complaints about them on my3cents.com plantfeedback.com judysbook.com and ripoffreport.com. I thinks its worth the time, because you may not get any response from the company, but at least there will be some bad press out there for them.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
I think you mean planetfeedback not plantfeedback… plantfeedback is a domain squatter site, it looks like. Ah, yes, I see your post here at planet feedback.
By the way, you’ve gotten responses on a couple of those websites.
October 10th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
I am not a lawyer but I know more about laws impounding cars than most of them. To impound a car on private property you must have proper signage. The towing company must have a contract with the business or property owner they must have rights to that property etc. Many times there is a third party (which must ne liscenced)parking service like the Jack in the Box on 50 th and Univercity Way. In either case there only individual persons listed on the contract have the power to impound a car and they must be present and witness the car on the property. As said earlier a tow company does not have blanket right to tow a car. See RWC 46.55.120. My advice is park on the street it is easier to beat a police impound much less than a parking ticket and cheaper than a private impound.
November 4th, 2006 at 9:23 am
My old post on Illegal Towing in California and how you can get your car and your money back (posted here as #74) has now been changed and updated. The new law will stop illegal or predatory tow trucks in their tracks. You will definitely want to check out my new and updated blog at http://predatorytowingincalifornia.blogspot.com/ My old sftow blogspot address is no longer valid.
November 4th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Is there any way you can look at my blog - posted in #78 - and if you think as I do that this is valuable information, move it to the top of your web site so more people can get the help they need if their car was wrongfully towed? Thanks